to: A complete segment of the telephone interview of Veronica of the
Cross by Michael Mangan on Monday, February 7, 1994
V—With the Shrine, Our Lady means that it’s going to go with
cooperation, I guess She means—I’m talking to myself now—with
cooperation and dependence on Her, you know. Dependence is very
important, She told me. Don’t lose, ever, contact with Me, She said,
by getting independent. When She said that, I figured oh, boy! Am I
doing something wrong here? That night I didn’t sleep when She said
that. I thought, oh, boy! Am I acting on my own, am I—Is She angry at
me? Because She just said that. And I, I perfectly stated that through
all my praying and asked for an answer to that. But I didn’t get any,
because I had to figure it all out on my own. In other words, accept
everything that comes day by day. Don’t get upset, don’t get too
excited, but wait and see. You know? I’m telling you that too,
Michael, because She wants you to know that.
V—Right. Because when She said that, then it was easy. I don’t worry
about anything, because I feel this way now after twenty-four and a half
years of Our Lady talking to me: that when the time is right everything
will go exactly like She’s saying and what Jesus said, exactly.
V—Right. And time—another thing about Heaven, Michael. Our Lady once
told me years ago there is no time in Heaven.
V—She said there is no time in Heaven. But, boy, that must be really
something. That must be really something.
A Special Child
V—You know another thing—why
am I thinking of Raymond now? Did I ever tell you my story of my son
getting killed, and how it happened?
V—...talked to me about three weeks before it happened?
M—Yes. “Will you give Me your son?”
V—When, when—well, I’ll repeat it. With Raymond’s, you know,
death which hit me very horribly, you know. He was a—he was a most
unusual child. I’m not saying that because he was mine. But there was
something about him. People used to say to me that, even before the
apparitions, “You know, your son is so different from the others. There seems to be something ethereal about him.”
V—The look about his face, his eyes. He was a very good looking boy. I’m
not saying that because he was mine. But even people have said he was a
very handsome boy. And, of course, he died at 16.
V—You know people wondered, people wondered how I could take it so
calmly. And I didn’t tell everyone, I only picked those that I thought
would spiritually understand me. But the reason I could take it so
calmly then, and I’ve never shed a tear over it, was because two weeks
before he was killed, I was going in to my altar—I had my altar on the
dresser when I lived at Bayside in a small apartment. I don’t know how
I fit all these people in that small apartment. Two bedrooms, I think,
one, two bedrooms, no, three bedrooms—five children and my grand—and
Order of Saint Michael
But I’m coming into my
bedroom and I was praying the Rosary, since I made a little altar—the
reason I’m telling you things, that Michael, because you’re going to
be the head of the, the Order of Saint Michael. And I want you to know
those things. That’s the reason I’m keeping you on the phone. In
case anything happens to me, so you’ll know these things.
I was at the altar and I had lighted the candle. I have a St. Theresa
statue on the altar, the one that Raymond brought, the one that Raymond
came in and saw Theresa. You know the—
will you give me your son?”
V—Right. And, and as
I was kneeling down, I almost fell off my feet! It gives me goose
heard this voice. And Michael, I can only tell you the truth, as God is
my witness. I knew it was Jesus or the Eternal Father. To this day I can’t
make up my mind. I knew it was either Jesus or the Eternal Father. I’m
standing there and I’m starting to pray the Rosary, when I heard Him—I knew that—a man’s voice, sort of, after that. And only until I sat
down from the shock did I realize—They let me know Who it was. They
let you know, you know it? I heard the voice saying to me, “Veronica,
will you give Me your son?” I didn’t hesitate. I figured it was the
Eternal Father or Jesus, the voice, it was so strong. And I said, “Oh,
sure!” I’m sorry I did—not thinking, really, you know? You’re
not thinking anything like that. “Will you give Me your son?” And I
knew—at that time I didn’t know which son it was, truthfully
speaking. But I’m not going to deny Jesus or the Eternal Father
anything. I wasn’t going to just say no to something that They ask. So
I just very lightly said, “Oh, yes! Oh, yes! I will. I will.” So I
left it at that and went, without thinking—I guess I wasn’t supposed
to know until it happened—without thinking, within a few short weeks—I
don’t know how many weeks, though. Like people—but the reason I’m
saying this, telling you about this is because people said, “Why did
you let him go up to the woods there on that vacation with that boy—with
those boys and his father after you got that message?” People who knew
about it. The message was, “Will you give Me your son?” Well, I
said, “Yes.” I would never deny Jesus or the Eternal Father what He’d
ask, you know.
V—So I wasn’t thinking
that They meant it. You don’t know, Michael, the cross it was when
shortly after that happened at my apartment, Raymond asked if he could
go with the other boys on this tour with the boy’s father upstate. Well, something told me I didn’t want him to go, but he coaxed me so
much, and I figured, well, the boy is getting enough persecution, saying
your mother is an oddball, and all this and that. He used to—he came
in one time, very upset. The boys had told him that your mother’s
crazy, you know. And he was very upset, and I told him. Now I said, “Ray,
don’t, don’t mind what they say about your mother. One day you’ll
understand it all,” I said. “And you’ll be happy.” So, he went
and up there, upstate, and what happened is—I don’t know, the father
gave them rifles to go hunting in the woods there, or something. Anyway,
he gave them rifles. Now when I let him go, I didn’t think anybody was
going to give anybody rifles. But the story is, I heard from the boy
that did it. He was—he was fourteen. Ray was about thirteen or
fourteen—he, no, Ray, no—he was older than that. Ray was about
fifteen or sixteen at the time when the other boys were about fifteen.
Well, the father gave them all guns to go out in the woods. See, I found
out later he was stone drunk and gave them the guns. And Ray—and Ray
had one, too. I have pictures of him up there, and—they took pictures. And, but what happened, one of the boys didn’t realize what he was
doing—satan was doing it, though—and he threw a block of wood that
was in the woods there and yelled, “Hey Ray, get that for me.” And
he threw this block of wood. And as Ray ran over to pick it up, he tried
to shoot the block of wood out of his way like they do in the movies.
M—Oh, my goodness!
V—They said it shot him straight through the heart.
M—Oh, my goodness!
V—Right. Right. I got the whole thing out at the inquest. I had to go,
don’t believe suing people”
M—They didn’t charge
the—they didn’t charge the father of the boy with the—
V—No! They didn’t, because—I didn’t press charges, either. You
know, I didn’t press charges, because I felt it was God’s will after
what was said to me. The truth of it—I never told a living soul of
this, not even Arthur, why I didn’t. So many people said press charges
against him, sue him, do anything else like that. But I said no, it’s
not going to help anything. And I don’t believe suing people, like
that. So, but the thing in the back of my mind, which I heard about two
weeks before or shorter than that—maybe a week and a half; it was only
a short time that he went up there. And of course, I never thought when
he asked to go up with them to the woods there I never thought of
anything like that happening. But sometimes you’re not supposed to, I
guess. But you’d love to know ahead of time.
V—Right. No, we didn’t sue him. But the man has to live with that
the rest of his life, that they gave—that he gave guns to boys, the
ones that killed. He has to live with that the rest of his life. They
came to the funeral, the father. I looked over. He saw me looking at
him. He turned away and went around the table. He brought the boys with
him to the funeral. And he has to live with that, Michael. So, no I didn’t
sue him. And then, the reason—I know it sounds peculiar that I, I
understood it, Michael, because I know what I heard: “Will you give Me
your son?” They meant it. The only thing is now, now when I hear
something I know They mean it! You know?
V—I, I couldn’t conceive—well, I had the human reaction. I couldn’t
conceive that They meant such a thing, especially when I was doing Our
Lady’s work. You follow me?
V—So, that I, I was in complete shock when it happened. I had to go
through a human torture. How can They do this to me? I didn’t know
They meant it. Maybe, maybe I should have said no! You know? But I knew
that I couldn’t have. It’s hard to explain. I couldn’t, you know.
Maybe I—it, it—I sometimes, even as a human being, that still
bothers me. Maybe if I had said, “Oh no, oh no,” or something like
that. Hmmm. You know, Michael?
V—But no, somehow I couldn’t, you know. Because I knew Who was
speaking to me. It was either Jesus or the Eternal Father—the voices
are sort of similar, similar voices, yeah. And They do. I wouldn’t
want to say no. Of course, I couldn’t believe anything like that was
going to happen, you know? Maybe I would have said, “Oh no,” if I,
if I knew what was going to happen. But the thing is this, it’s like a
test, Michael. Like a priest, Father Horvath, said to me, “You know,
you were being tested.”
V—“What do you mean?” He said, “The average person would have
said, ‘Oh, no!’” You know? You know, “Will you give me your son?” “Oh, no!” You know? They probably would take him already, and wouldn’t
have the grace to know where their son is. You follow me, Michael?
V—You may think, think this strange, to follow me in this.
M—No, no I understand.
V—Now actually, after all the years, I know I was graced because I
know where he is, if you follow me.
V—Right. Even if He asked me. See, in a way like that I get goose
pimples. I know that God the Father, Who I speak to quite a bit at night—it
was his time to go. See, Our Lady told me a long time ago there’s a
time and place for everything. She told me.
V—And She said, “There’s a time to live and there’s a time to
die.” In other words, She was telling us that it’s already written
in the books, or something.
V—There’s a time
to live and a time to die. It just happened that
that was Ray’s time. Now, who knows—like I said, like if any
mother—I’m telling you this in case you ever in the work hear of
something similar you can tell them what I said. I felt, now, after all
these years, at peace, because I know where he’s at. And there’s so
many mothers that write us, “Could you tell me where so and so is now?” They haven’t been to Church all these years, they haven’t been this
and that. You know, that’s hard on a family, especially....
V—Any spirituality. “Oh, my God, I wonder where they are.” You
know what I mean?
V—Things like that. So that actually, I know through the years that I
was graced. It was his time to go, and, and They made it factually
easier. Right? You may think this is crazy what I’m telling you,
Michael, but I’m, I’m trying to actually explain that actually, God
works in mysterious ways.
M—That’s for sure.
V—You know, so that when it happened I remembered that, and that got
me through everything, Michael.
Lady Counsels Michael Through Veronica
V—It really did. So—and
I’ll never forget it as long as I live. But that’s all I—you know,
so many things that, that are happening—I keep you on the phone
because I don’t want to forget anything that Our Lady tells me to tell
you, you know.
V—I wanted you to know about this for a reason, you know?